WiNTER TOUR 2008 REViEWS

[Assmask]

Good points well made that man

[Col]

Humbug - last years Newcastle gig, where can I hear that?

whatevermort - That's exactly why I never travel the length of the country and spend a fortune. If Ginger is not up for it then it turns the nite a bit sour. I've attended gigs for knocking on 30 years now and can't remember any other band moaning about their sound etc.

Ginger is bi polar so that may account for it all??

[nig1012]

I tend to either grope crowdsurfers, or steal their shoes.

do you grope all crowdsurfers or just the males

[spoon_of_grimbo]

I tend to either grope crowdsurfers, or steal their shoes.

do you grope all crowdsurfers or just the males

oh christ, i think we all know where THIS one's headed...

[fstorr]

The London gig was pretty damn sweet - pretty good set list and, where I was at least, the crowd seemed up for it. The sound problems were annoying - I overheard a couple of girls on one side of me asking why the band kept going off, I guess they're new to the band and aren't as used to Ginger's temper as some of us longer-in-the-tooth fans. When Ginger said something like "I admit I'm acting like a cunt" someone near me said "at least you admit it now - you didn't used to". Ahem. At the tube station there were a few fans talking about the issue, and I have to agree with them: £20 is a lot for a ticket (and that's before the extra charges we get stung for), it's the band's responsibility to make sure they sound good. Not doing a soundcheck and then having the gig spoilt is unprofessional and could well encourage people not to spend time and money seeing them again.

The band turned up at the venue at about 2.30 - I know because I was stood outside it with a huge amount of sleeves that I was wanting the band to sign. Many of them have been signed by band members over the years, but I was really hoping to get Scott's autograph. I managed to get CJ to sign stuff that had been released recently (he thanked me for buying his first house!), but missed out on the others. I saw them outside the venue, shouted over to them, but they seemingly didn't hear. I asked a member of the band's crew to see if they were around and could sign my stuff; we said he'd go and ask. I've no idea if he did, but nothing happened, except I managed to get exceedingly cold standing outside for about seven hours

Having said all that, I look forward to seeing the band again. And, one day, I will get Mr Sorry's autograph on my vinyl copy of Earth Vs, Assuming there isn't another line up change in the mean time!

[Jason_scorching_past]

When Ginger complains about the sound is he just talking about the sound up on the stage or are we supposed to notice there's something wrong with it too? Only i don't every notice these things, most gigs I've been to sound fine. I don't know anything about this sort of thing from a technical point but if there are problems like this aren't they fixed quickly? and does anyone else notice it?

As for whether there is a place for The Wildhearts today, if they keep releasing albums we will keep buying them.

[shockingcandy]

When Ginger complains about the sound is he just talking about the sound up on the stage...

Probably the monitor sound as in my experience it's pretty much impossible to tell what the front of house sounds like from the stage. Lets be honest, have good acoustics ever been a priority at club venues?

[Humbug]

When Ginger complains about the sound is he just talking about the sound up on the stage or are we supposed to notice there's something wrong with it too?

I'm neither a musician or a sound guy, but go to a lot of gigs, and talk to musicians a fair bit.

As I understand it, the sound guy needs to do two mixes - one for the crowd, and a second using on-stage monitors for the band.

The audience mix is usually the easier of the two, as the sound guy (normally) sits in the booth, mixing it for his ears, however fucked they may be.

The purpose of the sound check is to get the mix on-stage right for the musicians, which is why it's so critical, and the fact that the band missed it will have lead to much of the troubles at the Forum. Iif they were there at 2:30, I'm surprised they didn't have time for a sound check.

The sound engineer will also mix the house sound for an empty room, which will then change when you guys fill it up..which is why often the sound gets better after the first two songs or so.

[kriscoverdale]

When Ginger complains about the sound is he just talking about the sound up on the stage or are we supposed to notice there's something wrong with it too?

Look for band members in the 1st few songs pointing meaningfully up or down, while looking at the side of the stage or the back of the venue. There was a fair bit of it going on during both A and The WIldhearts - people generally trying to get more of particular things in their monitors.

[shockingcandy]

I'm neither a musician or a sound guy, but go to a lot of gigs, and talk to musicians a fair bit.

As I understand it, the sound guy needs to do two mixes - one for the crowd, and a second using on-stage monitors for the band.

The audience mix is usually the easier of the two, as the sound guy (normally) sits in the booth, mixing it for his ears, however fucked they may be.

The purpose of the sound check is to get the mix on-stage right for the musicians, which is why it's so critical, and the fact that the band missed it will have lead to much of the troubles at the Forum. Iif they were there at 2:30, I'm surprised they didn't have time for a sound check.

The sound engineer will also mix the house sound for an empty room, which will then change when you guys fill it up..which is why often the sound gets better after the first two songs or so.

Indeed, bigger bands often have a "stage sound" person who mixes from the side of the stage. I would say though the soundcheck shouldn't just be to get the stage sound right. Ultimately the most important thing is what the paying punters hear. Soundcheck also provides the opportunity to test that all the gear works after it has being bashed around in the back of a van.

If they didn't soundcheck then surely there must have been a good reason...

[shockingcandy]

When Ginger complains about the sound is he just talking about the sound up on the stage or are we supposed to notice there's something wrong with it too?

Look for band members in the 1st few songs pointing meaningfully up or down, while looking at the side of the stage or the back of the venue. There was a fair bit of it going on during both A and The WIldhearts - people generally trying to get more of particular things in their monitors.

Perhaps the answer lies in In-The-Ear Monitors. Then each band member can have as much og whatever they like without the fear of feedback.

[gothbotherer]

I would like to think that after 20 years Ginger could be a little bit more professional about having poor sound. I'm getting increasingly sick of his histrionics, and having been watching the band live for the last 14 years, am getting perilously close to not bothering anymore.

The sound at Wildhearts gigs has, since the days of Big Mick, been pretty much woeful - last Xmas at the Astoria being an exception.

I think I'm gonna stick to just buying the albums in future.

[hoodedclaw]

Often, when the front of house sound is excellent, the on stage sound is awful. The monitor mix is more critical with the WIldhearts than for many bands due to the complexity (3 vocals harmonising) and the volume. The Wildhearts are blessed with the loudest drummer I've ever heard, but the drawback is that all the backline and foldback (monitor sound) has to compete with the Battersby effect.
Whilst front of house acoustics are often good, the same can not be said for onstage. At Sheffield Academy for instance, the ceiling over the audience was low, but above the stage was a large void....like a barn. That meant that the onstage sound was trapped and bounced around...like being inside a huge bass bin. It was awful...and ear-splitting. Out front, the sound was relatvely muted. Very strange.
CJ and Scott stand to the sides, and only have thei own backline to deal with. Ginger is in the middle, and gets the full whack.....a bit of Scott, not much CJ, a barrel load of Battersby, and a lot of his own guitar sound. Because his guitar is quite mid-range, not too far from where his voice is, he often just gets a confusing mess, which make pitching very difficult. He often wanders over to CJs mike wen he' sruggling, becaue he can pitch better there, in CJs less confusing space (however, this can put CJ off).
I'm reluctant to speak for G|inger, so I can just make an observation. He's a wants to deliver the best to his audience, and gets pretty upset with himself if he feels that the sound, his singing, or whatever is sub-standard. If he missed soundcheck, and felt that it compromised the show, then my guess is that he'd be doubly angry and frustrated with himself. He cares very deeply (sometimes, it's possible that he cares too much).
As it happens, I've seen a good few gigs lately when the on stage sound has been horrible, even after a satisfactory soundcheck. And on top of that, I've seen several gigs where I thought they were blinding, but the band didn't enjoy themselves.....and vice versa. At the end of the day, all kinds of things affect our idividual gig experience: mood, company, position in the audience. It's pretty rare when it works for absolutely everyone....but the WIldhearts deliver those special gigs more than any other band I've ever seen.

[shockingcandy]

I would like to think that after 20 years Ginger could be a little bit more professional about having poor sound..

Some bands tell the audience every night that "this is the best gig of the tour" regardless. Some people tell it like it really is. I'm not saying either approach is wrong, just different.

Being a musician I can't begin to tell you how a bad stage sound can really fuck up your performance (try recording yourself singing along to your walkman and you'll hear what I mean). The soundman is entrusted with making sure the performance sounds good front of house but if the performance isn't there, well you can't polish a turd.

I actually think the Wildhearts sound much much better than they did back in the days of the Full Roar. At Manchester the FOH was good where I was standing and I could hear everything perfectly fine (granted I do wear decent earplugs). We've all get very used to polished studio productions and I think it's easy to forget that live bands don't actually sound that way.

[markE]

this is the first time i've been on the board since the london gig and i still don't know how i feel about it.
bits of the gig were fantastic - ginger soloing on headfuck right in front of us, the nita nitro opening, hearing understanding jane and carmelita etc

on the other hand - ginger storming off, leaving the rest of the band looking confused, abandoning the vocals on several tracks - including just in lust whcih i was sooo excited to hear, the general shiity mood really brough things down.
yes the setlist was great and very long ( i don't understand people who say it was predictable - it wasn't even the same as the rest of this tour let alone other tours???)

my wife, who loves the band, really felt let down with gingers antics and never really got back into the gig after ginger left the stage the first time. i am more of a band geek and so was still into the rest of the set - but there was increasingly more space around me ( and not just because of my crazy dancing or body odour), were people leaving early?
geordie fell flat, with only the first verse getting the full sing along.
so all in all a bit of a weird one. thank goodness for the legend that is scott sorry, who with his gliitery hair, magic pixie dust and general good humour saved the gig for me.

i hope ginger is okay, i hope the band are okay.

(Sarc were you in na white top, taking photos of A, during their set?)